Bush & Kerry: Brothers in Arms?

[Moody Blue]

George W. Bush and John Kerry both spent their mid twenties in uniform. The similarities end there.

http://www.mojones.com/news/update/2004/02/02_400.html

[TheFunkeyGibbon]

As much as I dispise Bush (and this just make me despise him more), this is a sideshow.

The best way, in fact the ONLY way, to win a Presidential Election is on the econnimy. Kerry's got to have some good ideas and Bush has got to have fucked it up enough.

With any luck he might have just done that by then...

[damnnamething2001]

Originally posted by TheFunkeyGibbon
As much as I dispise Bush (and this just make me despise him more), this is a sideshow.

The best way, in fact the ONLY way, to win a Presidential Election is on the econnimy. Kerry's got to have some good ideas and Bush has got to have fucked it up enough.

With any luck he might have just done that by then...

No doubt he has. He also just stuck his other foot in his mouth. There's a big issue in the US now about companies exporting jobs to countries with cheap labor. These include everything from textile jobs to help lines (call about a computer problem, your credit card, any number of other things) and the call ends up in India and, even some tax returns, welfare information and other government functions are reviewed by workers in India. The best one is the sending of xrays and CT scans to be reviewed by radiologists in India. (Woner how the patients would feel about that.) It used to be only blue collar jobs that went outside the country. Now the white collar ones are going too. In light of this ... Bush actually said that the exporting of jobs was good for the economy. I am sure the workers who lost their jobs will disagree, not to mention the unions. The man is brain dead.

[Moody Blue]

The exporting of jobs outside of the U.S. isn't anything new... it started with Clinton - NAFTA, dealing with countries that had no labor laws, etc...

That's why the Bush tax cut on the rich i.e. Corporations - he says it will cause a "trickle down" effect - companies will expand operations and hire new people...

The reality of the Bush tax cuts causes "trickle out" effect - the rich/corporations will invest the savings outside the U.S. where they can get even more in return...

The middle class in America is being decimated by the past 2 administrations and their corporate bosses...


Originally posted by damnnamething2001
No doubt he has. He also just stuck his other foot in his mouth. There's a big issue in the US now about companies exporting jobs to countries with cheap labor. These include everything from textile jobs to help lines (call about a computer problem, your credit card, any number of other things) and the call ends up in India and, even some tax returns, welfare information and other government functions are reviewed by workers in India. The best one is the sending of xrays and CT scans to be reviewed by radiologists in India. (Woner how the patients would feel about that.) It used to be only blue collar jobs that went outside the country. Now the white collar ones are going too. In light of this ... Bush actually said that the exporting of jobs was good for the economy. I am sure the workers who lost their jobs will disagree, not to mention the unions. The man is brain dead.

[colinsky]

Indians deserve jobs too.

The exporting of jobs IS good for the economy -- the WORLD economy. For too long have other nations suffered due to US trade protectionism. The only way for quality of life imblances to be overcome and for third world countries to become first world countries is for jobs to be developed in those countries too. �@Intelligent and skilled Indians and Chinese can do jobs just as well as Americans -- they should have equal opportunities to prove their worth to employers. Yes, in the short term it will benefit those in areas where the cost of living is cheap and hurt those where the cost of living is high. But in the long term, the quality of life will improve for those where the jobs are going, wages will increase, and jobs will be more competitive worldwide.

It may not seem fair to you, but that's because you've been subsiding your own workers at the expense of the rest of the world.

The best one is the sending of xrays and CT scans to be reviewed by radiologists in India. (Woner how the patients would feel about that.)
Something wrong with Indian medical schools in your opinion? Those brown skins don't know how to run a hospital? WTF?

[Lovefool]

But in the long term wages are driven down, working conditions worsen in the USA, the middle class no longer have the spending power they once enjoyed so the economy stagnates. Then when wage costs in India get too high the jobs move to China, then Bangladesh and one day maybe the multinationals choke on the vast wealth they have accumalated to no great purpose

[colinsky]

Yes, that's true. You can keep your elite oasis of wealth and condem the rest of the world to poverty, or you can share opportunity with all even though you may have to give up some of the priviledge that you created at others' expense. It's an ethical choice that some will make and some won't. But choosing it doesn't make one "brain dead".

Bush has had a lot of feet in his mouth lately. Classifying documents to protect the Saudis is one of them. The incredibly offensive "gay marriage amendment is another". Then again, Kerry supports "civil unions" which is just shorthand for "I'm a bigotted bastard who hates gays, but I feel a little bit guilty about it." No improvement there.

Will Nader run again?

[shimjimminy]

Originally posted by colinsky

Something wrong with Indian medical schools in your opinion? Those brown skins don't know how to run a hospital? WTF?

i dont think that was the point colinsky. If examination of irish patients scans, x-rays, blood results etcetera were farmed off to america purely for economic reasons i think i'd be a bit taken aback. If there was a need for a singular specialist or second opinion from a leader in the field thats fine, but to ship off work like this wholesale to save a few bucks while your health system crashes down around you takes a certain audacity. Recent administrations have had just such audacity

[Lovefool]

Originally posted by colinsky
Yes, that's true. You can keep your elite oasis of wealth and condem the rest of the world to poverty, or you can share opportunity with all even though you may have to give up some of the priviledge that you created at others' expense. It's an ethical choice that some will make and some won't. But choosing it doesn't make one "brain dead".


Under capatilism unfortunately one is connected to the other, wealthy western consumers equal cheap labour in some corner of the world. If multinationals are exporting jobs to India, it's not to share opportunity, it's to drive down costs and the extra wealth created will not be passed on to the consumer or re-invested in India. It will be kept as profits, bonuses & dividends. It's a very short-term self-serving view of the world that capitalism espouses. Long term sustainable devolpment and stability tomorrow will always be sacrificed for profits today.

[krayZpaving]

the solution is to get rid of capitalism - power to the workers, socialism for ever ;)

[Moody Blue]

No - it will not be good in the long term - it will be worse...

Jobs are being sent to countries with no labor laws, no protection of workers, which the coporate tycoons would love here in the U.S. i.e. WALMARTing America, therefore they pay pennies to the workers who work 12-16 hr days and go home to sleep in a mud-hut or something resembling a cardboard box...

The leaders of these countries are paid off by the corporations/rich to keep these slave like conditions this way - it's modern day slavery dressed up as "Globalism"... wages will never rise in these countries - that's a lie that the likes Bush and Clinton have pounded into the American public over and over thru the years...

The reason American workers have it better (but are losing ground) is because of unions and laws to protect them from corporate exploitation... the middle class in the country have always had to fight against the rich in order to have a decent quality of life..

Corporations/Rich have only one interest - GET RICHER... not some fairytale of making the world a better place...

Originally posted by colinsky
Indians deserve jobs too.

The exporting of jobs IS good for the economy -- the WORLD economy. For too long have other nations suffered due to US trade protectionism. The only way for quality of life imblances to be overcome and for third world countries to become first world countries is for jobs to be developed in those countries too. �@Intelligent and skilled Indians and Chinese can do jobs just as well as Americans -- they should have equal opportunities to prove their worth to employers. Yes, in the short term it will benefit those in areas where the cost of living is cheap and hurt those where the cost of living is high. But in the long term, the quality of life will improve for those where the jobs are going, wages will increase, and jobs will be more competitive worldwide.

It may not seem fair to you, but that's because you've been subsiding your own workers at the expense of the rest of the world.


Something wrong with Indian medical schools in your opinion? Those brown skins don't know how to run a hospital? WTF?

[damnnamething2001]

Originally posted by colinsky
Indians deserve jobs too.

The exporting of jobs IS good for the economy -- the WORLD economy. For too long have other nations suffered due to US trade protectionism. The only way for quality of life imblances to be overcome and for third world countries to become first world countries is for jobs to be developed in those countries too. �@Intelligent and skilled Indians and Chinese can do jobs just as well as Americans -- they should have equal opportunities to prove their worth to employers. Yes, in the short term it will benefit those in areas where the cost of living is cheap and hurt those where the cost of living is high. But in the long term, the quality of life will improve for those where the jobs are going, wages will increase, and jobs will be more competitive worldwide.

It may not seem fair to you, but that's because you've been subsiding your own workers at the expense of the rest of the world.




Something wrong with Indian medical schools in your opinion? Those brown skins don't know how to run a hospital? WTF?

There are only a few problems with your argument. If the US economy fails, if job loss becomes so great as to drive the country into third world status, then everyone suffers. Where will all those produscts produced by the third world go? The US market, the most desired market there is, (China coming on strong) is vital to the world as a whole. Add to that the trillions in US debt that other nations hold, and you should be able to see aproblem with serious economic failure in the US. The answer isn't to move jobs.

And no...I don;t have anything against Indian doctors. A Pakistani doctor saved my ex wifes life when no other doctor could figure out what was wrong with her. I don;t make those distinctions, and it is insulting for you to imply it. My point was that most patients would prefer to know the radiologist who reviews their CT scans, to talk to them, to feel comfortable with them. I have had numerous CT scans for a tumor behind my left eye. Being able to talk directly to the radiologist was immensly enlightening and reassuring. That was my point. Medical issues should remain where the patient can have access. Next time don't presume to label someone a racist. It only demonstrates your ignorance and your own intollerance.