Presidential election.

[Diogenes]

Fine Gael leader, Enda Kenny has said that he is favour of having Mary McAleese as an agreed President.

So; if there is not to be an election the party leaders will decide who is to be President. This is an abuse of their position and a denial of democracy to the rest of us.

We are entitled to an election – what do you think?

[Captain Sterling]

Other independant candidates can be put forward.

[SlapHead]

it seems Labour will put Michael D Higgins forward.... I like the idea of Michael D as pres... better than having that FF lackey McAleese going around telling us what a great job the Government is doing.

[AeroPhile]

I cant vote for any of them. Doesent really matter though. All the prez seems to do is go to rugby matches and promote the latest rage in D4isms.

[Evil Dave]

I was shocked the first time i heard mary o Rourke suggest that just because none of the parties could be bothered forwarding a candidate that there would be no election. (well i wasn't that shocked, I despise that woman)

What kind of democracy do we live in? why not just make Mary McAleese queen?

[Baldy]

I think an election should happen.... I also think Mary McAleese should get the job again.. but I am biased :D

[Sparks]

I reckon we ought to elect David Norris to take over the job. At least that way, you'd see the Presidency being used, rather than fading into symbolism and ineffectuality as it's done with McAleese...

[Baldy]

yeah sparks, McAleese hasn't done an awful lot to utilise the office properly, I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

I just think she's the person for the job at this point in time with the peace process still being worked on (actually I just made that bit up....only reason I want to see her as President again is coz she's from Belfast :D )

[Sparks]

Ah, parish pump politics :D

(But then Norris is a TCD senator, so I guess I'm guilty too :D )

Just seems to me that Norris has the better record - he'd be a male version of Mary Robinson, only better.

[Baldy]

Complete with the smile borrowed from Jack Nicholson in Batman 2 ?

[Sparks]

We talking about the same Norris? :confused:

[Diogenes]

McAleese has done a reasonable job – but seven years is enough.

[Baldy]

Sorry Sparks... when you said he would be a male version of Mary Robinson I thought you meant literally ;)

[Amergin]

Jack Nicholson wasn't in Batman 2.

If there is no other candidate than I believe we should be asked if we want Mary McAleese to get a second term, Yes or No. Otherwise it's exposing our democracy for the sham it is.

[ArseBurger]

This is how Hillary got in for a few terms. No contesting candidates = a shoo in!

[Paddylekker]

Couldn't care less if there was an election for President or not. Pointless little position. McAleese is welcome to it if she wants as far as I'm concerned. I don't particularly like her and I despise her past (the radical right to life stuff) but, overall, I'm not bothered.

FG and Labour need the cash to fight the next election anyway.

[Joefuz]

Why don't we put forward a P45 independant candidate?

[CEO]

me me me me me me pick ME!

[Amergin]

[standard p45 joke]me is in New Zealand and is therefore unlikely to be eligible[/standard p45 joke]

[shakabu]

Originally posted by Paddylekker

FG and Labour need the cash to fight the next election anyway.

bingo.

the presidency is a ceremonial head of state type institution.
Norris would be more photogenic and we could all feel cuddly and modern with a gay man in the position, but let's face it it wouldn't change the country at all.

It would however be interesting to see how a person with little practical legal experience would perform better than a person qualified and practicing for more than 20 years in Irish Constitutional law.

[krayZpaving]

I imagine (and I'm completely out of the loop at the moment, so this is not policy of any particular party ;)) that this election is seen as already being sown up by McAleese, so the financial resources put behind an alternative candidate will be quite limited unless something changes over the next few months (or has already since I was last at home). You might even see a combined FG/Labour candidate, or something similar.

[Joefuz]

Originally posted by CEO
me me me me me me pick ME! So Ms CEO, what do you feel you could bring to the position?

[DNS]

Originally posted by Sparks
I reckon we ought to elect David Norris to take over the job.

so Sparks wants Norris in the Pheonix Park eh?



oooh Christ thats the funniest thing I've ever read!

[Sparks]

Originally posted by Amergin
If there is no other candidate than I believe we should be asked if we want Mary McAleese to get a second term, Yes or No. Otherwise it's exposing our democracy for the sham it is.
No, that was what the nice treaty referendums were for.

Originally posted by shakabu
Norris would be more photogenic and we could all feel cuddly and modern with a gay man in the position, but let's face it it wouldn't change the country at all.
It wouldn't change one of the most homophobic countries in the world to have a gay president? What exactly are you smoking today shak?

It would however be interesting to see how a person with little practical legal experience would perform better than a person qualified and practicing for more than 20 years in Irish Constitutional law.
Thing is shak, firstly he's been the most vocal senator over the last decade or more, his record on humanitarian issues is excellent, and while the post is symbolic, it can still be used to good effect by someone with the intestinal fortitude to do so - unlike McAleese, who seems to have made it her personal goal to not rock any boats anywhere.
At least Robinson was well-known outside of Ireland...
(Oh, and the president has a team of advisors on constitutional law, since it wasn't made a condition of the job that you had to have legal qualifications....)

Originally posted by DNS
so Sparks wants Norris in the Pheonix Park eh?
I think the Phoenix Park might be a better place DNS, since that's where Áras an Uachtaráin actually is....

[shakabu]

Originally posted by Sparks

Thing is shak, firstly he's been the most vocal senator over the last decade or more, his record on humanitarian issues is excellent, and while the post is symbolic, it can still be used to good effect by someone with the intestinal fortitude to do so - unlike McAleese, who seems to have made it her personal goal to not rock any boats anywhere.
At least Robinson was well-known outside of Ireland...
(Oh, and the president has a team of advisors on constitutional law, since it wasn't made a condition of the job that you had to have legal qualifications....)

president is not permitted to speak on Irish foreign policy.

Norris' campaigning was often backed up in the courts by Robinson (cf his successful appeal to the European Court of Human Rights on the gay issue- his counsel? Robinson).

it's my new years resolution to ignore fucking what are you smoking type comments

[DNS]

ah..sorry - I was laughing too hard to spell

If you think a 'spelling mistake' comeback is going to hide your gayness that you are sadly mistaken!


We're here, we're queer - we don't want any more bears!

[Sparks]

president is not permitted to speak on Irish foreign policy.
Nope, not directly.

Norris' campaigning was often backed up in the courts by Robinson (cf his successful appeal to the European Court of Human Rights on the gay issue- his counsel? Robinson).
And this has what to do with McAleese?

[shakabu]

Originally posted by Sparks
Nope, not directly.


And this has what to do with McAleese?

nothing. you were the one who said he'd make a better president than Robinson.

[Sparks]

No, I said he'd make a better president than McAleese shak. I think he'd be the male equivalent of Robinson. (Ie., equal amount of potential).

[shakabu]

Originally posted by Sparks

Just seems to me that Norris has the better record - he'd be a male version of Mary Robinson, only better.

obviously by "better" you meant "the same"
hrm.

[magicbastarder]

Originally posted by Sparks
one of the most homophobic countries in the world
okay, what the fuck have you been smoking?

[Sparks]

Male equivalent only better because he's gay. Which would do more to shake stuff up than a straight white male affluent president....

[Sparks]

Originally posted by magicbastarder
okay, what the fuck have you been smoking?

Hey, I'm from Kerry MB - where one of the reasons some people never trusted Dick Spring was because he wore pink shirts, which struck them as overly fruity.
Which is odd from a bunch of sheep-shagging, SF-electing farmers....

[shakabu]

so now sexual orientation dictates competence in office?

i bet you'd think it'd be good for the country

[Sparks]

It does not dictate (phnarr, phnarr) competence shak, I said it would shake more things up to have a gay president, simply from the point of view of the symbolism. You know, I thought I'd said that rather clearly the first time....

[shakabu]

so what you're doing is assuming there's an inequality in ones ability to shake things up based on ones sexual orientation.

This would not exactly be consistent with the constitutional presumption of equality between citizens regardless of gender, race, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation.

would you like to use your speculative quantification formula on Ivana Bacic who is female, pro-choice and also a Trinity alumnus so as we can comparitively analyse the extent to which she would shake up the system?

More to the point, surely it would only shake things up for people who do not hold the same view as you- so your view is actually reactionary, against people who might be socially conservative. You seem to think that the president should be an antagonistic figure, a symbolic totem through which you can taunt their wrong-headed fuddyduddydom.

So therefore your view of the Head of State is as a sociological puppet, designed to encapsulate and represent only your own perspective of what Ireland should be, rather than an inclusive symbol of the whole country, which is, ultimately the function of the President.

[Sparks]

so what you're doing is assuming there's an inequality in ones ability to shake things up based on ones sexual orientation.
No, what I'm doing is assuming that a gay president makes for a better figurehead from the gay rights point of view than a straight president would.
Hence my statement in my last post : "It does not dictate competence".
I mean, am I speaking a different language to you or something shak?
I say it doesn't, and your very next post claims I actually said it does?

Besides which, I'd love to watch Bertie squirm when he shakes Norris' hand while trying not to "catch gay" :D

[shakabu]

the post relates to your assertion that a president should "shake things up" not that gay people are more/less competent.

you've got this sneering attitude to the average irish person, as if you're the only person in ireland that's cool with people being gay. it's nauseating.

I'll bet bertie has met norris several times and probably gets on well with him as they're both affable, sociable individuals, albeit from different backgrounds.

My problem with your argument for Norris is not related to the competence issue, it's the suggestion that Irish people need this sort of quota-based tokenism to wake them up to issues like gay rights that i take issue with.

[DNS]

a gay president makes for a better figurehead from the gay rights point of view

a culchie president makes for a better figurehead from the culchie rights point of view

a socialist president makes for a better figurehead from the socilist rights point of view

Personally I think:
a competent president makes for a better figurehead from the competent rights point of view

and/or

an Irish president makes for a better figurehead from an Irish rights point of view

[Sparks]

Shak, what DNS said. Now do get your head out of your arse please, it's a disturbing image to look at.

Fact is, Norris has an excellent record. Which is what I said in my first post on this thread. That alone ought to be enough to get him the job should he want it. The fact that it would cause some discomfort to the vast majority of the people I've had the misfortune to encounter in this country is just icing on the cake. That's what I said at the start - you've just gone off on a tangent of your own with this, and I'm done following, thanks very much.

BTW, I'm equally sure that Bertie can't stand Norris, since Norris has publicly castigated Bertie for being the little shit that he is on many occasions, both in the Seanad and in public. And Bertie's only affable in that he doesn't have any opinions on anything bar his own self-interest, and so he doesn't come across as a highly offensive person unless you actually watch what he does.

[DNS]

Eh actually - I was agreeing with Shak!

Take it outside Gayboy!

[Sparks]

No DNS, you only thought you were. Like you only thought that you were straight :D

[aken]

Originally posted by Sparks
I reckon we ought to elect David Norris to take over the job. At least that way, you'd see the Presidency being used, rather than fading into symbolism and ineffectuality as it's done with McAleese...

Thats only because you both have the same tie!

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by aken
Thats only because you both have the same tie!

Are we into bondage now?

Just imagine it! A BDSM rights campaign for the Presidency!