is Ireland becoming a Nanny State

[Busaras]

With all the new proposed laws and taxes (carbon, bags, fat), is Ireland becoming a Nanny State

[Joefuz]

Don't forget the reworking of the speed limits! 80kph on a boreen from next June if they get their way! 120kph on dual carraigeways and motorways though...

[Tipsy Mac]

Yes it is, it won't be long before you will need full documentation to walk outside your front door.

[AeroPhile]

Um, I'm not sure if nanny state is the correct term, but I see where your coming from. I think its more of a case of the powers that be wanting to be seen to be doing something about society coming apart at the seams.

So rather than enforce existing laws we'll make up some new ones. That oughta show Joe Criminal.

But having said that, I'm voting yes. Due to the fact that McDowell and co. seem to be lodged in the platonian (not a real word, but you get the point) view that the common man is too ignorant to know whats good for him. I wouldnt be supprised if they tried to make a masters degree a pre-requisite for the electorate register. Wankers.

[Amergin]

It's not becoming a nanny state. It always has been.

[magicbastarder]

well, the only one of these laws introduced so far has been a success.

[Tipsy Mac]

Originally posted by Amergin
It's not becoming a nanny state. It always has been.

I dont think it has, in the 80's you could stagger into your car with 10 pints on board in full knowledge that you would not be stopped getting home, you could drive at 100mph knowing there was little if any chance of getting a speeding ticket, you could drink all you wanted and it was nobodies fault but your own, you could buy sweets and biscuits and get a nice plastic bag.

[Amergin]

But you had to go home from the pub at lunchtime on Sunday and you weren't allowed go out clubbing on Sunday night in case you were unable to get up for work in the morning.

[AeroPhile]

I thought that had something to do with going to mass on a Sunday?

[magicbastarder]

the then future taoiseach could talk about drinking 8 pints of bass and driving home...

[Amergin]

And the state closing the pub to make sure we went to mass was not a symptom of a nanny state?

[Nexus6]

Hang on a second. Half the time ye are all moaning on about the environment, the crime rate, the state of society etc. etc. Now that there's laws and taxes coming out you're pissed at them too. I think you need to define exactly how much intrusion you want the government to have and then come up with ways of solving the problems you're concerned with.

[Amergin]

Nexus I'm not moaning at all. I love that they are considering a Carbon tax. I love that they are reducing some speed limits. I love that they have introduced penalty points and fines for not wearing seat belts. I love that being able to stagger into your car with 10 pints on board in full knowledge that you will not be stopped getting home, or drive at 100mph knowing there is little if any chance of getting a speeding ticket is a thing of the past.

[superfly]

what about not allowing us to smoke where we like or have happy hours or drink till 12.30 on a Thursday

[Tipsy Mac]

We'll atleast they hav'nt banned the "Lovely Girls Competition", I mean Rose Of Tralee ;)

[Amergin]

What about preventing us having to sit in the stink of other people's dangerous smoke or worry about drunken children pissing and puking on our doorstep?

When children misbehave with something it is taken away from them until they are mature enough to use it properly.

[Joefuz]

Originally posted by Tipsy Mac
I dont think it has, in the 80's you could stagger into your car with 10 pints on board in full knowledge that you would not be stopped getting home, you could drive at 100mph knowing there was little if any chance of getting a speeding ticket, you could drink all you wanted and it was nobodies fault but your own, you could buy sweets and biscuits and get a nice plastic bag. In all honesty, that was lack of enforcement (the main problem with all laws in this country) rather than there not being laws in place. We need those extra 2000 Gardai we were promised.

[Nexus6]

Originally posted by Amergin
Nexus I'm not moaning at all. I love that they are considering a Carbon tax. I love that they are reducing some speed limits. I love that they have introduced penalty points and fines for not wearing seat belts. I love that being able to stagger into your car with 10 pints on board in full knowledge that you will not be stopped getting home, or drive at 100mph knowing there is little if any chance of getting a speeding ticket is a thing of the past.

Hang on. You're doing it again. Are you agreeing with me or being sarcastic?

:D

Bus, we have got to get a sarcastic smiley

[Joefuz]

Originally posted by Amergin
I love that being able to stagger into your car with 10 pints on board in full knowledge that you will not be stopped getting home, or drive at 100mph knowing there is little if any chance of getting a speeding ticket is a thing of the past. No it's not. Ye can still do it in lots of places simply because there is no Garda presence.

[Amergin]

I'm agreeing with you Nexus.

Joe there are also lots of places where you can't do it and there are hundreds of people being done for drink driving every week.

[AeroPhile]

Originally posted by Nexus6
Now that there's laws and taxes coming out

But the problem lies in the fact that there allways have been laws in place but they were never enforced, so in the light of this bringing in new laws for the sake of it seems disingeneous. Closing pubs an hour earlier will make no difference. People will just go out at eight o clock instead of nine and try to squeeze in more before closing time hence worsening the problem this legislation is being brought in to solve.

None of this pub legality is properly thought out. If smoking is such a major health risk then ban it outright. No more fags. Cigarrettes are responsible for more deaths every year than heroin, E's, crack and coke put together, yet they are readily available to anybody. But thats ok, because they are nice and taxable so its not morally wrong to choke yourself slowly as your contributing to the greater good.

[Joefuz]

But it's still too common Amergin. Driving from Donegal to Galway of a Sunday evening I always see a few cars that are obviously under the control of someone with a few pints on board.

And even the people that are done for drink driving, they get back on the road. Guy that lives near me parents at home has lost his license twice after being done for drink driving and he got it back each time after the ban ended. (He was recently done for having no tax and insurance just a few months after getting his license back). He was one of the few to get caught back home but he's still on the roads, so even when they are caught it means nothing.

[4ofUs]

pansies!

[Zeno]

People in this country moan about government inaction all the time:
- my job is gone what is the government going to do?
- the health service is shite what is the gov going to do?
- all this drunkeness and crime on our streets what is the gov going to do?
- etc., etc,

Then people moan when the gov tries to do something. I have a proposal for a new law:

When you complain about something the gov. does unless you have a fully costed and planned alternative you get 6 months community service!...disclaimer..this last comment is a weak attempt at humour so don't take me literally.

[magicbastarder]

Originally posted by Joefuz
But it's still too common Amergin. Driving from Donegal to Galway of a Sunday evening
yeah, but a) the cops in donegal are known to be a bit "inefficient", and b) drivers in donegal are a bit mad anyway.

[Nexus6]

Originally posted by AeroPhile
Cigarrettes are responsible for more deaths every year than heroin, E's, crack and coke put together, yet they are readily available to anybody. But thats ok, because they are nice and taxable so its not morally wrong to choke yourself slowly as your contributing to the greater good.

How many people smoke v. how many people take Heroin, Crack & Coke combined. Of course more people die from smoking, there's only about a twenty to one ratio. As for banning it, sure why not. Banning something that is so deeply engrained in a society and used by so many people works really well. Just look at Proihibition in the States. So what's the alternative. Hwo about taxing it to death, educating the people to make them totally aware of the problems, making it more and more difficult to smoke outside of the open air and your own home and so on. It's not the quickest thing to do but it's hard to change a society overnight.

[TheFunkeyGibbon]

Originally posted by Zeno
When you complain about something the gov. does unless you have a fully costed and planned alternative you get 6 months community service!...disclaimer..this last comment is a weak attempt at humour so don't take me literally.

While I acknowledge you are joking, I do think that 6 months community service is a good idea for people who bitch about the system but don't vote. That gets right up my nose.

Me: I hate Blair he's a twat and he's ruining this county.

Bloke: Yeah me too, he's letting all those immigrants in too.

Me: Hmmm, so who did you vote for?

Bloke: Oh I don't vote, they’re all the same ain't they?

*Cut to me beating the shite out another apathetic, moaning non-voter* :mad:

[Nexus6]

Originally posted by TheFunkeyGibbon
While I acknowledge you are joking, I do think that 6 months community service is a good idea for people who bitch about the system but don't vote. That gets right up my nose.

Me: I hate Blair he's a twat and he's ruining this county.

Bloke: Yeah me too, he's letting all those immigrants in too.

Me: Hmmm, so who did you vote for?

Bloke: Oh I don't vote, they’re all the same ain't they?

*Cut to me beating the shite out another apathetic, moaning non-voter* :mad:

I never understand that attitute. If you don't like something then go and work on changing it. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

[Nexus6]

People get so put out when I use that line on them.

[TheFunkeyGibbon]

Originally posted by Nexus6
I never understand that attitute. If you don't like something then go and work on changing it. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

Are you agreeing with me or suggesting I should work at getting more people to vote? :confused:

[Nexus6]

Agreeing

[GregF]

What's all the fuss folks .....Paranoia setting in .....Is Ireland becoming a Nanny State?.....There's not a snowballs chance in hell that such laws will ever be enforced here, such is our lackadazical ''State of Inertia''.

[bastich]

Originally posted by AeroPhile
I wouldnt be supprised if they tried to make a masters degree a pre-requisite for the electorate register. Wankers.
Not quite, but only people with degrees from certain universities can vote in the Senade elections.

[Drifter2]

Originally posted by Joefuz
But it's still too common Amergin. Driving from Donegal to Galway of a Sunday evening I always see a few cars that are obviously under the control of someone with a few pints on board.

Take a spin down West Cork on a Sunday at around 4.00pm and count the number of drivers who obviously went straight to the pub after mass.

[Joefuz]

Originally posted by magicbastarder
yeah, but a) the cops in donegal are known to be a bit "inefficient", and b) drivers in donegal are a bit mad anyway. a) True b) not as mad as Galway drivers. And Galway drivers are tend to be mad while sober.

[Sparks]

Nanny state? Hmmm. Not Mary Poppins, no. Maybe a really incompetent nanny that's drunk half the time, steals from the house, beats the children, and from time to time passes out mid-coitus on the couch in the living room with her ex-con boyfriend....

[Hack]

1) Taxing cigarettes to death will cause a proportionate increase in fag smuggling plus a decrease in tax income to the state's coffers.

2) Taxing fatty foods is ridiculous and a means for the government to increase its tax take in the current economic doldrums. It is also a way for an increasingly beleagured government to show itself in a caring "we really want you to be healthy because we care for you" light as its unpopularity grows.

3) Reducing speed limits on single lane, country roads means not a whit unless every road has a Garda presence on it or speed cameras. How likely is that?

4) McDowell's stupid proposal to ban Gardai from imparting information to journalists means they will not be able to confirm details of RTAs, burglaries etc. and thus will cause the failure of all local newspapers and radio stations. The one and only reason he wants this law is because of the news being leaked that his son had been beaten up. Government for the people? Don't make me laugh.

4) As a smoker, I'm not against banning smoking in workplaces but believe it be unworkable in the case of pubs.

5) All the above are indicators of a increasingly desperate administration that is at its wit's end trying to come up with moves that will be favourably received by the public.

[colinsky]

there's a typical liberal problem here in the assumption that, "we have good intentions" or "we're doing it for health/people's own good/safety" is a valid reason for curtailing rights.

[Diogenes]

A nanny is needed only if children or citizens are not mature enough, or cannot be trusted, to behave themselves without one.

If two of the children, or citizens, can be so trusted, but the other two can not, you still need the nanny.

[magicbastarder]

bus mentioned three laws at the start f the thread, carbon, bags and fat.

carbon: i see nothing wrong with replacing the current road tax system (based on engine size) with one based on emissions and efficiency. different criteria, you pay the same.
also, you could ban road tax altogether, and tax petrol and diesel - so you can own a car, and only have to pay when you use it, i.e. when you use fuel.

bag tax has been a proven success.

fat tax - something else entirely. overweight people have no bearing on my quality of life, and it's their business.

[AeroPhile]

Originally posted by magicbastarder


fat tax - something else entirely. overweight people have no bearing on my quality of life, and it's their business.

But I'm not fat, so why should I be penalised if I chose to have a bag of chips? or a burger? or (heaven forbid) both?

[magicbastarder]

exactly. what i was getting at (in terms of the smoking debate, forgot to mention that point) is that unlike smoking, overeating does not have a similar, (albeit reduced for smoking), effect on the health of anyone else.

[Sparks]

carbon: i see nothing wrong with replacing the current road tax system (based on engine size) with one based on emissions and efficiency. different criteria, you pay the same.
also, you could ban road tax altogether, and tax petrol and diesel - so you can own a car, and only have to pay when you use it, i.e. when you use fuel.
Ah, but that's not what's being proposed, is it?

As to fat tax, I'm surprised that it's being considered, seeing as how it would negatively impact the health of children. You'd think they'd learn that that sort of thing is a bad idea after the "VAT on children's shoes" bit of history...

[Nexus6]

I am fat. And if the government put 15c or even 50c on the price of fast food, I'm still going to be eating it. They won't do it anyway. Even they know that the sight of people like Mae Sexton or Mary Harney telling the electorate that they need to be slim would be a little too much to take.

[magicbastarder]

Originally posted by Sparks
Ah, but that's not what's being proposed, is it?
it's what should be proposed.

[Sparks]

it's what should be proposed.
Indeed. Welcome to Ireland though...

[wombat]

Originally posted by Nexus6
I never understand that attitute. If you don't like something then go and work on changing it. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

Not sure I'll have the time, what with me doing 16 hour shifts down at the hospital doing.... I dunnow, operations I guess, sweeping the streets clean of rubbish for another 5 hours a day, performing research and acting as a watchdog for all governmental departments for another 1.5 hours and then patroling the streets in my batman outfit for the last half hour or so.

Exhausting I know, and I hallucinate all the time, but at least I'm allowed to complain! go me!

[Lovefool]

There should be a tax on opportunistic politicians flying kites such as the fat tax just to get their ugly mugs in the papers

[Nexus6]

"sweeping the streets clean of rubbish for another 5 hours a day"

You work as a road sweeper?

[wombat]

Originally posted by Nexus6
"sweeping the streets clean of rubbish for another 5 hours a day"

You work as a road sweeper?

Yes, and as a doctor, political watchdog and vigilante superhero, apparantly this entitles me to complain about the state of our hospitals, political corruption and crime rates since I'm actively doing something about them.

Unfortunately there are only so many hours in the day and as such I cannot afford the time to join telecommunication watchdogs and as such am not allowed complain about my phone bill or shabby internet services. Also, since I do not monitor traffic 24-7 I cannot find it in myself to feel anger or complain about the dipshits who regularly run the red light out at Madigans and almost kill me about once or twice a month (my time will come soon at this rate..oops..)

At least that would be the case if I bought into that retarded rationale that if you're not working to change the problem you're not allowed complain about it. That's the kind of mentality that lets "the man" ride roughshod over us all. It's like the "whingers" thing, you don't like the idea of cash being wasted on a pointless ego trip like the spike or the bertie bowl and you're a whinger. It's an excellent way to shut someone up, but it's a damned dirty argument.

[blastman]

The comment was actually that you aren't entitled to complain if you don't vote, wombat, the other comment about having a solution before you start moaning was made as a joke.

Still, keep up the good work! ;)

[wombat]

Originally posted by blastman
The comment was actually that you aren't entitled to complain if you don't vote, wombat, the other comment about having a solution before you start moaning was made as a joke.

Still, keep up the good work! ;)

Bah..


That'll learn me, dark age of camelot is no substitute for sleep, I read the post about five times to make sure I wasn't going off at the deep end again.